tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.comments2018-12-17T07:33:24.492-07:00The Tactical WargamerM.Doroshhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-73950463622687478222018-12-17T07:33:24.492-07:002018-12-17T07:33:24.492-07:00They're out of print but used games are common...They're out of print but used games are common at online auctions or resellers like Noble Knight.M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-90179243604160916482018-12-17T00:35:17.237-07:002018-12-17T00:35:17.237-07:00howdy just got squad leader today from ebay with n...howdy just got squad leader today from ebay with no squad pecies just wondering if you would know where to get some from cheersAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07192109413789228198noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-43365172491572949442018-04-27T22:55:23.800-06:002018-04-27T22:55:23.800-06:00Thank you for posting this great interview. I enjo...Thank you for posting this great interview. I enjoyed it immensely. rcleary171https://www.blogger.com/profile/05037605683441169143noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-1957600816383690872016-05-04T21:13:11.430-06:002016-05-04T21:13:11.430-06:00gamesquad comments continued:
Michael Dorosh - 21...gamesquad comments continued:<br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 21 Oct 08 20:28<br />Agreed - poor example. Maybe Matrix would have the resources to give it a try with Panzer Command, but I take your point. It would be an enormous gamble with a niche market. Something like Star Trek or Lord of the Rings is far less risky because they have established universes and fan bases - not to mention games that have done well and sold thousands of copies in the past in different genres - both straight tactical as well as role playing, both in board format and now PC format - and going back decades now. They're lobbing softballs, really. <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 22 Oct 08 23:39<br />http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...st=0&sk=t&sd=a<br /><br />Well, speak of the devil...<br /><br /> Hello All,<br /><br /> My name is Greg Breault and I am making a game called "Bunker" (temp name). Its really just for fun but if anything works out from it thats great. Its primarily an MMO (massively multiplayer online) based game, Axis vs Allies. Also, please excuse me if get any terminology, facts, etc etc wrong, thats why I need you.<br /><br /> Currently the game is at its basic stages, just me working on it, doing concepts, base models of characters and environments. You can see a shot of the base US soldier model here. He was a test case called "Sarge" that I made.<br /><br /> "Sarge"<br /> http://www.gregbreault.com/temp/gregbreault_sarge.jpg<br /><br /> US One Man Tent<br /> http://www.zealotstudios.com/Bunker/tent.jpg<br /><br /> US Ammo crates and ammo box<br /> http://www.zealotstudios.com/Bunker/ammocrates.jpg<br /><br /> I really just need help on camp layouts etc, what goes where, etc. I will try to be historically accurate, but, it doesn't have to be dead-on. If anyone is interested in consulting on either the Axis or Allied side please give me a hollar. Or I could just post to these forums my questions if no one minds.<br /><br /> Please delete/move this thread if i've posted it in the wrong area, or it just doesn't belong.<br /><br /> Thank you,<br /> Greg Breault<br /> gbreault@zealotstudios.com<br /> Original post from 2007, but latest post from just today asking questions about LATWs and indicating a rough Alpha in the works...? <br /><br />Dr Zaius - 23 Oct 08 15:28<br />All of those are dead links. <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 23 Oct 08 16:25<br />I noticed - the discussion link at Axis History forum works though so you can see the whole thread. Some of the newer images in the thread work.<br /><br />Gotta read the whole thing.<br /><br />Doesn't seem like a lot to report though, and honestly, not really what we've been discussing here - at least, it doesn't seem like a hybrid of tac/op layers. But a tactical MMO set in the Second World War that isn't WWIIOL or whatever it is called now is of interest, even if only pre-Alpha.<br /><br />Of course, if I had a dime for every, say, Operation Flashpoint mod that was announced with great fanfare and then never came to fruition... M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-7675942071222920362016-05-04T21:12:46.617-06:002016-05-04T21:12:46.617-06:00Gamesquad comments continued:
Rindis - 21 Oct 08 ...Gamesquad comments continued:<br /><br />Rindis - 21 Oct 08 10:13<br />Total War is a commercial and critical success. I have yet to get around to trying the series, even though I've been especially wanting to get Rome.<br /><br />JWWotW was pretty much ignored. I eventually got it despite not being able to find any reviews, because I thought the theme was fun. It has the dubious distinction of teaching me just what my roommate (a character animator) does for a living, by the extreme need for someone like her doing the campaign cinematic. The game itself was fairly good (I still bring it out once every couple of years), but features really bad loading times today (never mind a decade ago). Also, while both sides had a playable campaign, there was no multiplayer option. Commercial success: problematic. My grade: C+. Historical note: First RTS with a strategic province system I know of.<br /><br />TA is the biggest love-hate relationship I've had with a game. It is the last RTS that got me involved at all, and I still play against the (poor) AI on occasion today (last time was probably a month ago). But, we're looking at the Boneyards service. I don't know what the critics thought, and they weren't charging for the service. The game itself was still very popular at the time, and plenty of players flocked to the service (I only did a couple of times since we were still on dial-up). But the service eventually fell under the twin burden of Cavedog not generating enough new revenue (their second game took years, and wasn't nearly as well received), and Core always losing in the meta-campaign (presumably victim to the flash-rush syndrome that was still developing in the RTS crowd). <br /><br />Dr Zaius - 21 Oct 08 15:35<br />The problem is that MMOGs are some of the most difficult and expensive games to produce and service. Obviously, running an MMO requires a long term commitment of time and resources that other types of games don't. And since people are being charged a monthly fee to play, the servers have to be fast, reliable, and secure or the community will very quickly be at odds with the devs.<br /><br />Hardcore MMOs of any type are rare, but one based on tactical war gaming would probably be a money pit. <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 21 Oct 08 18:00<br />True enough. If you could find a supply/demand curve with a number of players on one scale and a low-demand game on the other, and find the maximum number of players willing to battle it out in a low-demand game like the first generation Combat Mission series. Come to think of it, if things get any worse for battlefront, maybe they can dispense with their Combat Mission: Campaigns idea and just try the MMO as a money making venture using CM:BB instead. I'd go online a couple of times a week or one day a month to help move the entire Eastern Front... <br /><br />Dr Zaius - 21 Oct 08 19:29<br />I understand where you are coming from, but I think you may be vastly underestimating the level of investment required to keep even a semi-popular MMO going. I just don't see how a tiny company like Battlefront could afford a 24-hour staff of IP techs to run a MMOG. The server expenses, software licenses and employee costs would vastly overshadow anything they have ever attempted before -- and that's assuming they even have access to that kind of cash in the first place.<br /><br />But all of this is probably a moot point. Hardcore war games have never been incredibly popular, as so it's a challenge in today's market to even craft a single player war game that sells more than 10,000 units. And it goes without saying that 10,000 subscribers would be a woefully inadequate base with which to launch a MMOG. The fact is, Battlefront would probably lose their entire investment in such a venture.<br /><br />Could something like Battlefield 2 or Operation Flashpoint be made into an MMOG? Yes, I think there are opportunities there. But judging by the games they have produced in the past and with all due respect to Battlefront, I'm not sure they're the company to pull that off. <br /><br />M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-57860453040331482502016-05-04T21:12:14.410-06:002016-05-04T21:12:14.410-06:00This was originally posted at gamesquad.com. The c...This was originally posted at gamesquad.com. The comments there read:<br /><br />Egbert - 01 Oct 08 06:35<br />I am actually surprised it hasn't been done, to some extent, already. I think the difference between a WWII MMO and WOW is the historical record exists for WWII and not for WOW. WOW can modify it's world to fit the game and not vice versa. <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 01 Oct 08 07:18<br />Lord of the Rings Online occupies sort of a middle ground, though, in being based first on an encyclopedia-sized reference (perhaps sparse on detail in places) as well as a popular 12 (?) hour movie series. With that much canonical reference material, Middle Earth arguably calls for a high standard of fidelity, though obviously not anywhere near what the entire Second World War would require.<br /><br />However, just as most of Middle Earth has to be fictionalized since Tolkien never really discusses how farmers operated in the northern Bree fields, or how local sheriffs plied their trades outside of Hobbiton-Bywater, I don't think there would be any great backlash if swaths of Europe were fictionalized for a World War II setting. And it wouldn't be far off, either, if one simply used modern satellite imagery to at least get the contours correct and general placement of the towns, villages and cities. Major rivers, hills, forests and coast lines have all remained pretty much the same, with some dramatic exceptions along the Dutch coast or in Berlin, where all the rubble was piled up to become hills. On the whole, however, the Ardennes or Normandy are largely unchanged topographically speaking (though the bocage is today largely gone from what I understand).<br /><br />If you're referring to historical events, well, the whole point of the game would be to change them, naturally... <br /><br />Rindis - 01 Oct 08 11:36<br />“provide an operational level layer to a tactical 3D game”<br /><br />This is also what the Total War series does, and what Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds did. They're more on the RTS side of things for the combat (JWWotW especially).<br /><br />There's also been a few things that come close to what you're talking about. The official on-line scene for Total Annihilation had a big meta-map with a bunch of worlds linked together by jump gates. Certain worlds were the 'front line', and you'd sign up as either Core or Arm, and play a game on a world(/map). At the end of the day the relative number of wins for each world would be tallied, that side would get the world, and the front line would move. As I recall, you could also practice fighting against other players (as opposed to the AI) on worlds behind the lines. <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 21 Oct 08 07:29<br />I forgot to ask, Rindis, those other projects - were they successful? Commercially? Critically? Did you like them? M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-72775491933276421282016-05-04T20:59:13.037-06:002016-05-04T20:59:13.037-06:00gamesquad comments continued:
Egbert - 29 Nov 0...gamesquad comments continued:<br /><br /><br /><br />Egbert - 29 Nov 08 14:34<br /> 'consider the publishing/licensing deal with Rage Against the Marines weird'<br />I'm unfamiliar with this. What was weird about it? <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 29 Nov 08 14:37<br />The designer of the mini-game said "you can use my game in your magazine, but the contract shall stipulate that once you've sold 'x' units of the game, that is all you're ever allowed to sell, after which all rights return to me." <br /><br />Egbert - 29 Nov 08 21:30<br />Hm, interesting. Sounds like the publisher was limiting their cost by promising there would only be a certain number of copies printed so, the game designer wrote it in the contract to hold them to it. <br /><br />Perry - 06 Apr 09 23:37<br />Yet that was not the case. <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 07 Apr 09 06:36<br />I'm not comfortable with the level of speculation here. Perry, thanks for the clarification, I wonder if we could ask you to clarify further. I take it your comment is in response to Egbert's suggestion that the publisher (i.e. you?) drove the decision to limit the number of copies of Rage Against the Marines whereas others have been reporting that the game's developer was in fact the one to make that decision. I left mention of the RATM controversy out of the article deliberately as I felt it really had nothing to do with what I wanted to say about the magazine - but Rindis was correct in raising the point that there are a number of observers who became obsessed about the licensing.<br /><br />I'm not sure it matters as much as was originally feared by the prospective customers as the magazine is still available; I noticed a copy at my local hobby store just last week, so concerns that the magazine would not reach all those who wanted a copy were unfounded.<br /><br />Personally, as I wrote in the entry above, I think it is a trivial footnote that has unfortunately gotten in the way of what should really be remembered: the magazine was the most content-rich example of a "special edition" wargaming magazine in the history of the medium, and in any other respect a triumph. I suppose the fact that RATM was a "limited edition" should only serve to increase the value of the magazine. <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 17 Apr 09 08:37<br />I've added a poll in the forums to ask people there what they feel would have been appropriate content for the magazine, particularly the dissenters - i.e. those who felt there was "too much" ASL content. There is some consensus there, that this was a well put together product and a few comments of "just right" in addition to the dissenters. M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-43773380471348583552016-05-04T20:58:53.128-06:002016-05-04T20:58:53.128-06:00This was originally posted at gamesquad.com. The c...This was originally posted at gamesquad.com. The comments there read:<br /><br /><br />Rindis - 07 Nov 08 11:23<br />To be fair, a good amount of the panic on the ASL side of things revolves around the knowledge that the included Iwo Jima game has a 'limited license' where MMP can only produce so many copies—ever. Given the historical ability of ASL items to go out of print and then hit sky-high prices on eBay, the idea that supplies of the magazine could be limited even for initial demand (the number of allowed copies has never been revealed, though it would seem much higher than the initial knee-jerk reaction guessed) caused a lot of teeth gnashing.<br /><br />There are further complaints about ASL content in a non-ASL venue, but most of those are from sources who seem to only be happy being unhappy. <br /><br /><br />scrub - 07 Nov 08 15:52<br />Nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to buy a "$40 scenario". Rindis, I love your comment about happiness -- it pretty well encompasses the issue. <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 07 Nov 08 16:38<br />As usual, Rindis, you provide a balanced perspective to the matter. One hopes that Singling will be made available via another route at some point - perhaps as a bundle with Kakazu Ridge, which was in the now sold-out Journal 2. They are reprinting Journal 2 which is great for collectors and completionists.<br /><br />I'm not sure I would like to see (speaking from a personal perspective) Singling repeated in ASL Journal simply because I was already a loyal customer and paid for it once, and have every intention of buying the Journal pretty much regardless of the content.<br /><br />Journal 2 is evidence of the ebay madness that you speak of though; before they announced the reprinting, pristine copies were going for hundreds (literally) of dollars. <br /><br />Rindis - 07 Nov 08 17:13<br /> From the looks of things, there may be no need of a reprint for some time. The initial feeding frenzy is over, and they still have it in stock (and the worry was it wouldn't make it through that), which means it will probably be in stock for some time to come.<br /><br />Personally, I would prefer (when the day comes) that Singling be reprinted along with the rest of Operations Special Edition #1... without the Iwo Jima game.<br /><br />I'd also like to see them reprint the out of print Annuals and Journal #1 (Especially Annual '97, the only hole left in my collection), but those weren't done digitally, and would much harder to reproduce, even for the ones that were put together by MMP, much less the in-house AH productions. So, I'm afraid we're stuck with amazingly high eBay prices on '97 (thanks to Kakazu Ridge). <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 07 Nov 08 22:10<br />Personally, I would prefer (when the day comes) that Singling be reprinted along with the rest of Operations Special Edition #1... without the Iwo Jima game.<br /><br />From a historical standpoint, I like that option the best.<br /><br />Can't think of anyone who didn't consider the publishing/licensing deal with Rage Against the Marines weird, but we shall see what the future brings as far as that goes. Some titles are too clever for their own good anyway... M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-70226287555108013892016-05-04T20:49:51.939-06:002016-05-04T20:49:51.939-06:00gamesquad comments continued:
Michael Dorosh - ...gamesquad comments continued:<br /><br /><br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 14 Nov 08 16:52<br />And even more news; the parents have set up a trust foundation in his name. That's really great, but the intent is to get kids out of video games and into sports. That's great too, but the story says that Brandon was initially in hockey but judged "too small" to play goalie.<br /><br />I can totally relate; I was smaller than my classmates also, not much of an athlete, humiliated by being picked last for schoolyard teams. I did my best at floor hockey and soccer but when video games came along, I far preferred Intellivision over going out to get picked last. Not everyone is going to excel at sports nor should everyone be forced into it. I think I managed to do okay without having been in organized sports, if 21 years in the Canadian Forces, two university degrees, and a handful of successful publications are any indication. The fact I'm alive and un-incarcerated and happy should be enough, though, really...<br /><br /> http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...14?hub=Toronto<br /><br /> http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/sto...1496:b19647221<br /><br />The trust is a good idea, but it sounds like - in my opinion - for the wrong reasons. But if it helps the parents make sense of this tragedy, I wish them every success with it. Donations can be made at any branch of the Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC). <br /><br />Rindis - 14 Nov 08 17:40<br />I can totally relate; I was smaller than my classmates also, not much of an athlete, humiliated by being picked last for schoolyard teams.<br /><br />I wasn't humiliated, I just considered it inevitable. While I cared to give it a try (being stuck with it anyway), I didn't really care about people's opinion of me in that way.<br /><br />In much the same situation as you, I didn't go for video games much. Then again, there wasn't much opportunity. We didn't have a computer until I was Junior High (an Adam), and one dex-based game was incapable of holding that much of my attention. In late High School we got an Apple-compatible, and I started getting introduced to SSG (which made many classic games). But it was too late, as I had been sunk in books, wargames, and role-playing games for years at that point.<br /><br />On the other hand, I never had more than one or two friends at a time until High School. The biggest effect on my life may very well have been the Role Playing Gamers club, that introduced me to a wider circle of friends, and the only people I had any care to associate with after graduation (in fact, one is currently a roommate...). I did also have the advantage of parents who fully understood my interests—something I took for granted until I got a look at other club member's families.<br /><br />It is not the sports, it is not the video games. What makes the difference is people. Offer the kids that don't care for the 'popular' pursuits a way to engage their interests with each other, and you will give them something far healthier than sunshine and fresh air. M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-69983546680214904592016-05-04T20:49:31.075-06:002016-05-04T20:49:31.075-06:00gamesquad comments continued:
Michael Dorosh - 0...gamesquad comments continued:<br /><br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 07 Nov 08 19:03<br />Makes me wonder how many times my Dad harped at me to take a jacket with me too.<br /><br />Eventually, he would have come to realize that's what parents do. It's sad, but what else can you say.<br /><br />There was a vignette in the late 1980's in Gwynne Dyer's series called War; an interview with a Marine Corps veteran who had returned from combat in Vietnam and was back in his home town again and trying to readjust to civilian life. He decided he was going to go hunting with a boyhood friend and picked up his rifle from his parents' home, and as he left his mother said "You boys be careful with those guns, now."<br /><br />The veteran's point of the story was words to the effect "it occurred to me in that split second that she had no idea what I had been through during my thirteen month tour of duty." Of course, he had been carrying a gun in the northern part of South Vietnam near the demilitarized zone and had weapons safety drilled into him, so the comment was more than a little ironic.<br /><br />But in the context of this tragedy, it speaks to me now of parental obligation. Maybe she really did have an inkling of what he went through in Vietnam - it was on the television every night, after all. Those duties don't stop at any certain age - 8, or 12, or when you graduate from Boot Camp, or indeed, even when you come home from thirteen months in combat in Vietnam.<br /><br />Be careful with those guns, now.<br /><br />Take a jacket with you.<br /><br />As adults, we're prepared to accept that parents won't ever stop "hassling" us with those kinds of demands on us. That Marine Corps veteran may have unfortunately resented it as emblematic of a nation that looked down on his service. For most, parental obligation becomes part of the fabric of our lives, and a welcome part. We eventually come to laugh about it. I still get the gears from my mother when she sees me about wearing a heavy enough jacket.<br /><br />I guess I consider myself lucky now. <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 13 Nov 08 16:21<br /><br />http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/loc...13?hub=Toronto<br /><br />The latest news report says he died of chest injuries consistent with a fall from a tree. M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-43588736341014629572016-05-04T20:49:02.961-06:002016-05-04T20:49:02.961-06:00This was originally posted at gamesquad.com. The c...This was originally posted at gamesquad.com. The comments there read:<br /><br />jayedub7423 - 05 Nov 08 18:23<br />My condolences to the family, no parent should ever have to deal with the loss of a child. <br /><br /><br />Scott Tortorice - 05 Nov 08 19:28<br /> Well said. <br /><br />scrub - 05 Nov 08 19:38<br />Condolences as well.<br /><br />I hope the family's difficult time does not devolve into a witch-hunt with games as scapegoat. Great post Mr. Dorosh. <br /><br />KingNothing12 - 05 Nov 08 19:47<br />Very sad, what a horrible thing. Are there any leads? <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 05 Nov 08 22:33<br />I'll report on any news; there's no evidence of foul play but it has not been ruled out. I shudder to think what it could have been. All I can think of is - poor kid. Rereading the articles - I would never have been brave enough to run away from home, but some of it does strike home; a small circle of friends, strong scholastically, sounded like a homebody yet a broad interest base. Ugh. I just hate this.<br /><br />I went to Facebook to post a condolence message and was absolutely gripped by the irony there. A bunch of teenage boys thought it was funny to start posting messages on the memorial page about what a loser he was, how he deserved to die, and just thoroughly horrid stuff - most of them, I am sure, never even met him or perhaps even came within 500 miles of Barrie, where he lived.<br /><br />And it occurred to me that adolescent males have this need for vicarious adventure, usually with a destructive theme.<br /><br />These vicious little *******s were basically doing what Brandon was doing by playing Call of Duty - exercising the adolescent male fantasy of applying vicarious destructive power to something. I did it with Squad Leader, maneuvering Russian infantry companies to their doom, Brandon did it in Call of Duty, and these thoughtless little boys on Facebook who eventually got the discussion board shut down are really just exercising another form of recreational destruction, only with actual real world consequences and a capacity to hurt living people by their actions.<br /><br />Games aren't the problem - teenage boys are! I remember as a 16 year old we all piled into the back of a friend's pickup truck to ride home from school, rather than taking the school bus. I still remember thinking how funny it was when Colin threw a half-empty soft-drink cup out the window and it landed at the feet of an elderly lady and splashed her dress. I can't fathom what I was thinking or why, but being in the back of a moving vehicle, young, and stupid was empowering. We didn't feel the least bit of responsibility. I would not go back to those days if you paid me. I couldn't even if you did.<br /><br />Escapism and destructiveness is part of the adolescent male's make up, I think. It's as natural as the need of parents to rein it in and discipline them when it gets out of hand. I'm glad my Dad never found out about that soft drink cup. <br /><br />M Faulkner - 06 Nov 08 09:01<br />Mike, I think you hit on a lot of good points in you assessment of the situation. Blaming the game (what ever the game) is not the answer. Please keep us informed of things as the investigation progresses. <br /><br /><br />scrub - 07 Nov 08 18:51<br /> I think the latest is no foul play suspected. The "experts" believe hypothermia was primary cod. <br /><br />M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-5896803561142708612016-05-04T19:06:53.455-06:002016-05-04T19:06:53.455-06:00gamesquad comments continued:
Michael Dorosh - 29...gamesquad comments continued:<br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 29 Nov 08 21:35<br />The more invisible number crunching we have for CRTs, the closer we can step to reality while keeping it playable.<br /><br />But that's what I was getting at, and I think is what scrub is getting at what his comment. Are they the same thing (playability/realism)?<br /><br />The article in 1972 drew a very heavy dividing line and said you can have one or the other.<br /><br />scrub is saying you can either count firepower factors, or make realistic decisions.<br /><br />I think that invisible number crunching as in the new CM would tend to take a game more into sim territory - "realism" - but that doesn't necessarily mean it would be more "fun" or make it a "better" game insofar as there would be a lot of frustration at the user input level as far as knowing what the difference between a BAR and a Bren Gun would be in determining possible outcomes on the enemy, or why you shouldn't run really fast before shooting at someone - or if, indeed, doing such a thing would have any appreciable effect in the game at all. Real world experience would tell you it should, but for all you know, fatigue isn't modeled in any given game unless it is included in the user feedback somehow via a chart or screen or icon. <br /><br />Egbert - 29 Nov 08 22:46<br />Your point is good if counting each and every bullet is actually closer to realism. It is, only if it is relevant (to a sniper it would be) and the rest of the environment is up to the challenge. Otherwise it's merely an advancement in programming.<br /><br />Using that number crunching and administrative tracking to do something else, such as improved morale adjustments and keeping the player from having to do all the modifyer tracking (such as ASL) and becoming a master of the rules (ASL again), while allowing them to actually play, then you've moved back to the playability realm. <br /><br /><br />Rindis - 30 Nov 08 11:59<br />I think that invisible number crunching as in the new CM would tend to take a game more into sim territory - "realism" - but that doesn't necessarily mean it would be more "fun" or make it a "better" game insofar as there would be a lot of frustration at the user input level as far as knowing what the difference between a BAR and a Bren Gun would be in determining possible outcomes on the enemy, or why you shouldn't run really fast before shooting at someone - or if, indeed, doing such a thing would have any appreciable effect in the game at all. Real world experience would tell you it should, but for all you know, fatigue isn't modeled in any given game unless it is included in the user feedback somehow via a chart or screen or icon.<br /><br />And this is precisely the point I've harped on on occasion. The trend towards throwing more and more numbers at a game isn't, in itself, bad. But the fact that the user cannot easily know what is and isn't included in the model is no end of frustration, for me at least. Egbert's point that 'more reality' isn't the same as 'more realism' is one I wish more computer game designers would realize. I think we're still in the stage of them including things because they can, not because they should.<br /><br />And on a gaming history note: AH started playing around with the CRT in 1969. The original edition of Anzio featured step reduction (which made the game somewhat unpopular as you had to replace counters with lower-strength versions of themselves). So while it was a d6 odd-based CRT, it featured separate results in each cell for weather one side had to retreat, and how many losses they took. And yes, it was possible for both sides to take losses. M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-70792757362774927162016-05-04T19:06:35.987-06:002016-05-04T19:06:35.987-06:00Originally posted at gamesquad.com. The comments t...<br /><br />Originally posted at gamesquad.com. The comments there read:<br /><br /><br />Scott Tortorice - 29 Nov 08 18:00<br />As usual, this is another thought-provoking blog entry from you. Personally, I am a big fan of the Keep it Simple principle. I think John Hill has the right idea because, no matter how you slice it, you cannot really ever have a hyper-accurate CRT that is able to incorporate every conceivable factor during combat - at least, not without making the game absolutely unplayable. Given that inherent limitation, I believe the best solution is one that produces not incredible results with a minimum of fuss. <br /><br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 29 Nov 08 18:07<br />I don't want to harp on the new Combat Mission engine - we do a lot of that in the CM forum - but it kind of baffles me, given your comment here, Scott, why they then feel the need to track individual bullets in a squad-based game. I mean - there are man-to-man games that don't do that! Unless it is simply an empty claim.<br /><br />The CRT definitely became more layered; I had some pictures I didn't post of other games - Trenchfoot, which was an incredibly simplistic man-to-man game of trench warfare, had split out different kinds of combat from each other, for example, and while Squad Leader had the very unique Infantry Fire Table to handle grenade, HE and small arms combat all in one CRT, they still had separate tables for tank combat, and for hand-to-hand, they still resorted back to odds calculations based not on morale, oddly, but on firepower! <br /><br /><br />scrub - 29 Nov 08 19:40<br />Give some wargamers a CRT and you'll get gamey tactics up the wazoo. Squeezing just one more FP factor from somewhere just to make an arbitrary number irks me to no end. <br /><br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 29 Nov 08 19:43<br />That's a great point I wasn't thinking about, but you're obviously right. It comes down to the realism/game playing divide again. <br /><br />Scott Tortorice - 29 Nov 08 20:51<br />I don't want to harp on the new Combat Mission engine - we do a lot of that in the CM forum - but it kind of baffles me, given your comment here, Scott, why they then feel the need to track individual bullets in a squad-based game. I mean - there are man-to-man games that don't do that! Unless it is simply an empty claim.<br /><br />I hate to say it, but I think that is how wargame companies are compensating for a lack of modern graphics and design elements. In other words, PC wargame companies can't wow their customers with eye-candy or robust multiplayer components, so they do the one thing that they are able to do: use the number-crunching capabilities of the modern PC to the utmost. <br /><br /><br />Egbert - 29 Nov 08 21:26<br />But what is wrong with using the number crunching to the utmost. It's what computers are good for. You can take a very complex CRT and make it invisible to the player, making it more playable.<br /><br />The more invisible number crunching we have for CRTs, the closer we can step to reality while keeping ti playable. M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-81542884726471522182016-05-04T18:41:32.823-06:002016-05-04T18:41:32.823-06:00gamesquad comments continued:
Dr Zaius - 09 Jan 1...gamesquad comments continued:<br /><br />Dr Zaius - 09 Jan 10 23:06<br /><br /> Quote Originally Posted by Michael Dorosh<br /> But with respect Don, if you are really "into" a subject, as I said, you will scarf up all the content you can, as long as the content is good, timely, and affordable. Newspapers are - in my opinion, and I suppose I am not alone - garbage writing. They never get their facts straight, as anyone who has had any contact with newspapers knows.<br /><br /> Well, I don't really disagree with you. And that's my point. There is good stuff and bad stuff in print, and there is good stuff and bad stuff online.<br /><br /> I do agree that it is sad to see yet another wargame mag go down for the count. But then I'm unhappy to see any game magazine disappear. In the last two years about half the mainstream gaming magazines have ceased publication as well as several of the smaller mags like F&M. Just as bad, about half the game sites I used to visit have gone under or have been bought and consolidated into other sites. The advertising drought isn't just killing newspapers and big corporate news sites, it's killing game sites and magazines too.<br /><br /> All of this is bad news from my perspective because I like choice. I didn't buy Dragon magazine regularly, but I did buy it from time to time and it really upsets me that I no longer have the opportunity. I just don't think it's as simple as saying the good stuff will survive and the bad stuff won't. There are a lot of variables in play. <br /><br />King Billy - 10 Jan 10 13:15<br /><br /> You make some very good points. I would buy scenarios over the internet rather than the publications if they were available, but I woiuld not buy maps or counters over the internet if I had to print and mount them myself. This is where the print industry needs to go, to provide what cannot be provided on a computer screen.<br /><br /> The Swedish Volunteer Pack is a good example. I hear people rave about it, but it just does not push my buttons. I think its popularity has to do with the fact it also provided a set of high quality counters. I have also purchased LFT products because they have counter sets in them, alothugh I have only ever played one scenario with Spanish Blue Division counters and have never used the paratrooper counters!<br /><br /> The print media needs to adjust to the internet age, some within the industry will, and will survive, others will not, and will fade away. <br /><br /><br />HeThinksAgain - 15 Mar 10 15:21<br /><br /> Has anyone here tried the [URL="http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgamepublisher/9369/battles-magazine"]new Battles magazine[/URL]? I've just ordered a copy. Check out [URL="http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/501939/what-happened-next-when-non-wargamer-ender-got-a-w"]this review[/URL] with lots of pictures on bgg - looks very good.<br /><br /> I'll post a review when my copies of issues 2 and 3 arrive.<br /><br /> Cheers, Al. <br /><br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 12 Feb 11 17:41<br /><br /> Do you have a link to your review? M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-81014737519962671012016-05-04T18:41:15.207-06:002016-05-04T18:41:15.207-06:00gamesquad comments continued:
Michael Dorosh -...gamesquad comments continued:<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 08 Jan 10 19:10<br /><br /> You're not disagreeing with me though. Armchair General is not good, timely or affordable. Perhaps "value for the money" is a better way to put it. I agree completely on the relative worth of most magazines, and especially the ones you name/describe.<br /><br /> Let's put it another way. There are many free scenarios for ASL on the internet - and more official scenarios now than anyone can reasonably expect to play in a lifetime, especially if one includes HASL. Yet people keep buying stuff from LFT and BFP. Why? Because they are value for their money. Despite the fact they could easily live to the end of their days and only play official scenarios and stuff for free off the internet, they choose to buy third party stuff.<br /><br /> Because it is of high value to them.<br /><br /> If F&M would have been of high value - the way, say, Battles or Against the Odds are - things may have been different. And most successful gaming mags (like S&T) now do so because they offer what the Internet can't (LFT does this as well) - maps and die-cut counters. I don't think that "value added" has to necessarily be a "game in the magazine" format, but it certainly doesn't hurt. c3i is adopting a similar model to LFT in offering die-cut variant pieces/cards/etc. as a "lure" to differentiate it from mere "internet" content. So be it. <br /><br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 09 Jan 10 09:27<br /><br /> Delivery model may be the next big thing with publications - Print on Demand coupled with online delivery is a relatively new way to go as opposed to the rigid "periodical" model; I'm experimenting with that with TWJ, obviously. I think a magazine like Le Franc Tireur can experiment with it successfully also (not saying they are, just as a hypothetical). If they have warehouse space to keep back issues, they can "emulate" a print on demand style by having an online ordering service and provide copies on demand, unlike a "periodical" like F&M. There are other models, such as providing a combination of print and pdf versions, etc. Newspapers are certainly turning to online subscriptions - New York Times, anyone? - to augment their paper sales.<br /><br /> In other words, the magazine itself may not be the outmoded medium, but perhaps the delivery system. Why print something subpar every two months just to adhere to a schedule, in order to get it into the hands of a dwindling consumer base who doesn't want it? With a print on demand system, or an emulated POD system, you just print as many as you need, in theory, and sell to the people that indicate a desire to own it.<br /><br /> That's even without touching on the notion of pre-orders. <br />M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-80943597675570520342016-05-04T18:40:42.541-06:002016-05-04T18:40:42.541-06:00gamesquad comments continued:
Dr Zaius - 08 Jan 1...gamesquad comments continued:<br /><br />Dr Zaius - 08 Jan 10 00:29<br /><br /> Quote Originally Posted by Scott Tortorice<br /> To run a hobby mag today you need to be more like GW's White Dwarf (fantastic quality) than a B&W newsletter.<br /> White Dwarf is able to do what it does because it has a far larger fan base to work with than a mag like F&M. I've seen some wargame mags that were serviceable, but never anything as professional as White Dwarf. And I doubt I ever will.<br /><br /> I don't believe there is any such thing as "Internet quality." There is only high and low; the medium matters little.<br /><br /> Quote Originally Posted by Michael Dorosh<br /> The notion that the Internet is "competition" for magazines is false...<br /> Sorry, don't buy a word of that. The digital medium has it's pros and cons, but it is most definitely competition. Just ask all those out of work newspaper editors. <br /><br /><br />King Billy - 08 Jan 10 15:52<br /><br /> I am surprised F&M survived as long as it did. I have purchased it on and off over the years, simply to try and fill the void of board wargames related information before the internet, but it just did not do much for me. Any given edition might have about a third of the articals that were of interest to me, but they never seemed to cover anything in enough depth.<br /><br /> S&T and Moves did a lot better, as did the General. Still, it is a sad day when yet another wargames publication passes away. <br /><br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 08 Jan 10 16:52<br /><br /> The digital medium has it's pros and cons, but it is most definitely competition. Just ask all those out of work newspaper editors.<br /> But with respect Don, if you are really "into" a subject, as I said, you will scarf up all the content you can, as long as the content is good, timely, and affordable. Newspapers are - in my opinion, and I suppose I am not alone - garbage writing. They never get their facts straight, as anyone who has had any contact with newspapers knows. It's the nature of that medium. People read newspapers because they are convenient to carry out to lunch; that's the only reason I do. I suppose some people could take them on the morning train - but now with Blackberries, etc., they can get it digitally. But newspapers aren't hobby magazines, and people read them for entirely different reasons, so I don't think you can honestly compare the two.<br /><br /> There is a radio ad here on the local all-news station - if you are reading about it, it's history; if you're hearing about it, it's news. It's a cute poke at the newspapers, but it's also true when it comes to publishing. A magazine about World War II is also history. And people read history for different reasons than they do the newspaper. <br /><br /><br />King Billy - 08 Jan 10 18:36<br /><br /> I disagree. I used to buy a lot of magazines. Now I buy very few. Any wargame/military history/WWII magazine is only going to have so much content in it that will interest me. At $10 -$15 a pop, it is just not worth the money, no matter how good the presentation is.<br /><br /> Armchair General certainly has a nice appearance, and is well written, if perhaps a bit jingoistic, but I just do not get bangs for the buck out of it, particularly with the amount of information freely available on the internet.<br /><br /> You mention that the last edition of F&M had an editorial asking for submissions, which I image every edition had. This is because the magazines rely on submissions by wargaming enthusiasts. Now, if there is something I want to say about a wargame, I can put it on a blog and people can be reading it within minutes (or not read it at all if they are not interested). Not noly that, people can respond immiedately.<br /><br /> I spend $65.00 a month on the internet, it replaces the money I spent on magazines and newspapers, and I get great value for money from it. Sad to see magazines go, but that is evolution. <br />M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-34447192304431240522016-05-04T18:40:13.886-06:002016-05-04T18:40:13.886-06:00This was originally posted at gamesquad.com. The c...This was originally posted at gamesquad.com. The comments there read:<br /><br />Scott Tortorice - 05 Jan 10 20:38<br /><br /> Nooooo! While I haven't read F&M in years, I remain very fond of that magazine. I used to eagerly await its arrival in my mailbox back during the 90s. Unfortunately, I lost interest when F&M paradoxically veered away from wargaming for a while and started covering board games in general. IIRC, that was a short lived experiment.<br /><br /> I also disagree with the idea that the internet killed this mag. Sure, the internet does chip away at those casual gamers who wouldn't be inclined to pay for a subscription anyway, but I don't think it really has any effect on the target audience.<br /><br /> Look at Chess. Chess content on the internet is exploding, yet New in Chess is still the premier magazine, one that successfully charges $94 for a single year. Why? Because their reportage (I hate that word) is stellar. You just can't get that type of 'on the scene' news, interviews, photos and analysis from free internet material.<br /><br /> The internet is just another competitor, one that can be beaten with superior and exclusive offerings. But it seems a lot of magazines/newspapers just don't want to compete. They rather close up shop and blame the all-power internet for their lack of an ability to come up with something unique that people would be willing to pay for. <br /><br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 05 Jan 10 20:43<br /><br /><br /> Exactly. Military History Quarterly is another example of "good" journalistic type writing that you simply can't get anywhere you turn to on the internet. After the Battle is another one. Quality pays for itself.<br /><br /> Funny you should mention F&M's content struggles. I think Moves also veered away from wargaming too. No doubt in an attempt to pick up sales. I note the guys at BGG talk despairingly about "Euro" games. Moves seems to have a lot of content devoted to them. Of course, even The General made a move to cover more games like Kremlin and Wrasslin' towards the end, also. <br /><br /><br />Scott Tortorice - 05 Jan 10 20:53<br /><br /><br /> The trick with a publication is to come up with that publication's unique voice, something that just isn't available anywhere else. Needless to say, that can be quite difficult to discern, but it is essential.<br /><br /> Unfortunately, a lot of hobby mags have been content to dish the same content that can be had on the internet for free; they still haven't figured out that the game changed when the internet became the premier free content provider. I think part of the reason is that to kick things up a notch takes money (which is why free internet content is free). That is why a lot of these mags are closing up. To do what they need to do (hire reporters, photographers, artists, etc.) costs way more than many of these guys can afford. To run a hobby mag today you need to be more like GW's White Dwarf (fantastic quality) than a B&W newsletter.<br /><br /> In short, the internet will only destroy those publications that are of internet quality. <br />M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-32410366590637928102016-05-04T18:25:13.192-06:002016-05-04T18:25:13.192-06:00This was posted originally at gamesquad.com. The c...This was posted originally at gamesquad.com. The comments there read:<br /><br />Egbert - 16 Apr 08 05:55 <br />Off topic. <br />I think the pic above speaks a lot about the impact of the packaging for the games. The introduction of the orange and green really made a compelling piece of art. The use of one of the best (or at least most recognizable) photos to come out of the war and the dramatic colors demanded attention. When this came out, there were not such pieces of art in use in the commercial sector. It fairly jumped off the shelf at you.<br /><br />To answer your question, I do not collect, I simply don't discard the games that I play or played and enjoyed so much. <br /><br />Rindis - 16 Apr 08 17:09 <br />Huh. For some reason I had never noticed that the old purple-box was a straight three-color job (purple, red, black), and didn't have the separate helmet and shirt colors of the orange box.<br /><br />Most prized possession? Hmm. Once it was probably my original edition of Privateer. Fun game, nice cloth map and wooden pieces. Sadly, the box was in bad shape, and the contents spilled out without me noticing during a move.<br /><br />Now? I'm not sure. My stuff is mostly recent, having relied on my Dad's collection for a long time. So I haven't built up much attachment, nor do I have anything yet that I've quested after for a while.<br /><br />Maybe my Metagaming copy of GEV. I spent a lot of quality time with that in my early teens before getting the SJG pocket box.<br /><br />Re: Graphic design: A lot of AH tactical games really benefited from good, solid, stark cover layouts. Fire in the Sky is my favorite cover of recent years. <br /><br />turbidite - 17 Apr 08 13:56 <br />I don't see HPS squad battle mentionned in your list, do you know about it ?<br /><br />It is definitely a tactical PC wargame as you can see here for example : http://www.hpssims.com/Pages/product...winterwar.html<br /><br />There is even a forum here about it. <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 17 Apr 08 14:21 <br />Thanks for posting that reminder to the thread - your incredulity suggests it is not well known? I think it kind of reinforces the point that hybrids are just as popular as the 3D games and there may soon be more hybrid board game/computer games than actual 3D tac games... Thanks for the link.<br /><br />Do you recommend the game? <br /><br />turbidite - 17 Apr 08 16:14 <br />Yes it is not well know to the outside world. There are a few reviews and AAR available :<br /><br />Preview of the Soviet Afghan War<br />http://www.gamesquad.com/index.php?o...s&id=8&aid=167<br /><br />AAR of the Soviet Afghan War<br />http://www.wargamer.com/articles/sbsaw/<br /><br />There is a good fan supported site at http://www.wargamer.com/Hosted/squadbattles/id108.htm <br /><br />These enthusiasts have even modded a version to picture the Africa conflicts (South Africa vs Angola and some more) <br /><br />As on recommending the game, I have not played it enough yet to give a truly informed opinion however there are a couple of sore points to be mentioned from the start:<br /><br />1-you cannot make maps from scratch - this is a major source of complains and they have addressed it by releasing large maps which can be cut of. Still no editor if you want to have that hamlet here and that forest there.<br /><br />2-the armor model is not very detailed because the focus point is infantry - however there are enhancements progressively introduced to correct this.<br /><br />3-the graphics are not particularily eye popping - this is very user dependant as some cannot stand them while others don't give a damn - it is possible to mod them as well as the sounds and most of the weapons/vehicule tables as well (except for Advance of the Reich because a sequel is planned).<br /><br />The core group of players that dwell at http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=263 should be able to give you much more details about the jewels and dirt of the engine than myself.<br /><br />The scale is quite similar to ASL : 5mn turns and 40 meters hex and you don't have all these die rolls M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-85224650943891954232016-05-04T18:19:51.654-06:002016-05-04T18:19:51.654-06:00gamesquad comments continued:
Michael Dorosh - ...gamesquad comments continued:<br /><br /><br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 08 Apr 08 19:39 <br />Another hint then....there is a picture of the boxtop up above. :-) <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 08 Apr 08 19:41 <br />I think we're still working on number 4 as well, aren't we? <br /><br />Rindis - 08 Apr 08 20:41 <br />If #5 comes from one of the other pictures, it has to be from Combat: Normandy & Beyond, as it's the only WWII title (well, other than PanzerBlitz, but it doesn't have bazooka counters. ).<br /><br />And yeah, we are working on #4. Missed that. However, tactical games aren't my forte, and I really don't know on that one.<br /><br />I just noticed that the S&T issue is Vol. II, No. 1. I thought it had sequential numbering from when Chris Wagner started it to now. What's with the Volume 2?<br /><br />And, any reason why that issue of Campaign? Just what you had to hand? <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 08 Apr 08 20:51 <br />When Dunnigan took over S&T, he carried on the numbering as if it was all one volume, but Wagner actually had a volume II, so it can be listed either way - number 11 or volume II number 1...Dunnigan's first issue would have been Volume 2 Number 7 (or Volume 3 number 1), but I guess for respectability, they went with number 18)?<br /><br />I wanted a magazine from each decade - 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s - Campaign was on my desk. <br /><br />Egbert - 09 Apr 08 01:27 <br />Well, you told me I'd be pissed when I found out where it's from so, it's either from sniper!, ambush or the original Squad Leader set. So, it must be either Cross of Iron or Crescendo of Doom. <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 10 Apr 08 21:21 <br />Well, close. It's from Sniper, specifically the TSR remake of the SPI original. <br /><br />Egbert - 11 Apr 08 14:41 <br />You are right, I am kicking myself. <br /><br />M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-54896804753617056492016-05-04T18:19:34.195-06:002016-05-04T18:19:34.195-06:00This was originally posted at gamesquad.com. The c...This was originally posted at gamesquad.com. The comments there read:<br /><br /><br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 05 Apr 08 16:59 <br />Even five out of six would be a start... <br /><br />Egbert - 05 Apr 08 23:04 <br />Wow, Michael. That's hard. I have positively ID'd 2 of them and I know I've played 3 more. It's been a long time seeing some of these. <br />Egbert - 06 Apr 08 13:14 <br />Here's my guesses so far. I don't have my games here right now so I can't check them.<br /><br />1: I do not recognize this one.<br />2: Sniper! -TSR (might be one of the expansions)<br />3: GI: Anvil of Victory (Usually, there was a letter designator on the right side of the counter)<br />4: Back side of Yanks tank Commander? <br />5: I can't recall this one. Squad level, post SL. Not AH style to have the bazooka angled on the counter. So, maybe a GDW or SPI?<br />6: Thunder at Cassino <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 06 Apr 08 14:11 <br />1. Correct. (I mean - yeah, you don't. :-)<br />2. Correct. I believe the maroon guys were from Sniper! Special Forces.<br />3. Correct (and correct)<br />4. No. And you'll kick yourself when you find out where it is from.<br />5. No on all counts. Not squad level, correct it isn't AH, but it isn't GDW or SPI - this one will be tough indeed.<br />6. Correct. <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 06 Apr 08 14:17 <br />Here is a hint for #5 - the game was published by a company out of Blairsville, Pennsylvania. <br /><br />Rindis - 07 Apr 08 12:38 <br />Whew, posted the 5th - I thought I'd been missing out on this for months when I spotted the link.<br /><br />Glad to see you writing more on the subject. I'm slowly steeling myself to attempt writing on the history of wargaming myself (two of my roommates firmly said that I should right after Gygax's death).<br /><br />The computer gaming industry sometimes seems bound and determined to ignore the fact that games existed before them. Especially board games, RPGs they'll loot ideas from, and license properties from. Some of that is just they're completely unaware of the existence of wargames, as the companies that did reference them (SSG, SSI, TalonSoft), have died out.<br /><br />Also, I've started expanding the 'article indexes' on BGG with issues from my own collection. It'll be a while before I get far, but if you look a game up there and see an article listed for something you don't have, contact me, I can probably tell you if anything interesting was said.<br /><br />Counter #1 - hand drawn tank, presstype lettering, familiar factor arrangement... TG3?<br />#5 - PA, so not AH, SPI, Yaquinto, VG, TSR, GDW... ya got me, boss. <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 07 Apr 08 16:44 <br />Tac Game 3 is correct - thanks to Alan Arvold for providing me a copy of the counter sheet.<br /><br />Article indexes will be a big help; I'm tempted to publish something once my magazine collection is complete - if it is ever complete... <br /><br />Rindis - 08 Apr 08 11:02 <br />Such collections are never complete. At the very least, you find out about one more obscure title to go hunting after.<br /><br />Anyone have issues of War Game Digest they'd be willing to loan...? No, didn't think so. <br /><br />Rgirish - 08 Apr 08 13:55 <br />Well, I got one out of six correct. Come on then, tell us what #5 is. Don't make us wait!! M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-40830363739238619532016-05-04T18:12:10.773-06:002016-05-04T18:12:10.773-06:00This post originally appeared at gamesquad.com. Th...This post originally appeared at gamesquad.com. The comments there read:<br /><br />Rindis - 02 Jun 08 10:47 <br />Hmm. Took me a bit to spot the red 'center dots'. That doesn't look like a 40-meter hex to me. And it's too big for Sniper on the other side of things.<br /><br />There any tactical games with a 20-meter scale?<br /><br />As far as the visuals go--he's definitely made a statement. Probably not a bad one for claustrophobic city fighting. On the other hand, SL's bright colors are very 'welcoming' and I think are one of the things that helped get people in the game. <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 02 Jun 08 16:57 <br />As far as the visuals go--he's definitely made a statement. Probably not a bad one for claustrophobic city fighting. On the other hand, SL's bright colors are very 'welcoming' and I think are one of the things that helped get people in the game. <br />A whole new meaning to the phrase "user-friendly" - the SL boards are literally just pleasant to look at. I think the new computer generated ones that MMP is doing to replace the old artwork is even, somehow, a little friendly - in my personal opinion.<br /><br />As for 20 metre scale, I'm not aware of one, but now I'm curious. I'll keep it in mind as I'm going through my collection here. I've seen 10 metre scale, 5 metre scale, 125 metre scale for the various "tactical" games. M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-2584711754712777802016-05-04T18:04:57.101-06:002016-05-04T18:04:57.101-06:00gamesquad comments continued:
Michael Dorosh - 04...gamesquad comments continued:<br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 04 Jun 08 22:42 <br />Te big question to me is why don't wargame producers choose to host similar ranking systems for their own products? <br />Time and manpower, I am guessing. Avalon Hill used to run AREA, did they not (or at the very list carry the rankings in the house organ every issue). The Combat Mission fans, for example, have always been acutely aware that the developers of that PC title never had much in the way of online support - certainly never hosted a tournament or contest. I think it was just a lack of time and probably interest. They wanted to research and sell the games; marketing it to people who already paid their money seemed out of their frame of reference.<br /><br />I think competitive play is only a small part of the pie to be honest. Solo play, be it PC or boardgame, is supposed to still outrank face to face play in terms of popularity. I doubt that is true for something like ASL, for example, and MMP does get involved in one or two tournaments annually. But as far as long term ladder tracking, it's a good question. Competitive players are only a small part of the market. <br /><br />It may even be a disincentive to potential purchasers, to see that the developer is actively promoting rankings, etc. "I just want to kill some time on a Tuesday evening - if I buy this thing, am I expected to register in a league?"<br /><br />I'd argue also that as far as PC wargames, "balance" is not an issue - they are almost always designed (as far as tactical wargame titles go) for solo play. True, one can rank solo games against each other, the same way you used to get a high score in Pacman, but it is difficult to do so without qualitative markers in the end game. Combat Mission for example was probably the best game of the mainstream tactical titles (CC, SP) in terms of being set up for competitive play - it gave you a score from 1-100 at the end and was optimized for multiplayer. You could create mirrored maps, but, could not fight red vs. red. The newest engine seems to have taken steps both forward and back, mostly back. You can still create mirrored maps and fight red v red or blue v blue with identical equipment (for a true competition of skills rather than trying to balance 5 Shermans v 1 King Tiger), but the game is optimized now for solo play. At any rate, no one seems to be playing much competitive CM:SF.<br /><br />On the other hand, board gaming leagues still go strong; I am off to Texas on the 20th to attend an ASL tournament there. <br />Updated 05 Jun 08 at 07:41 by Michael Dorosh <br /><br />Dr Zaius - 05 Jun 08 08:16 <br />The Gamespy ladders are probably the closest thing there is for PC to an official ladder system for PC gaming.<br /><br />http://arena.gamespy.com/<br /><br />For console games, the Xbox Live! service is the most active. But it only serves the Xbox, so you can't really say it is any kind of formal organization for console gamers.<br /><br />I don't know that there will ever be one organization for all gamers, or even just for war gamers. It's hard to unify the community in such a way without having a lot of money and resources to back it up. And how would such an organization pay for itself? What would gamers get out of it that they don't already get from dedicated fan sites? M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-84196648348009958142016-05-04T18:04:37.026-06:002016-05-04T18:04:37.026-06:00gamesquad comments continued:
Rindis - 02 Jun 08...gamesquad comments continued: <br /><br />Rindis - 02 Jun 08 11:38 <br />I saw the title for this one and thought, "I've read this recently, didn't Michael talk about this a while back?"<br /><br />No, I was thinking of the Simonsen editorial you quoted. I hit that issue of Moves a couple months ago as I try to read my way through my old magazine collection. <br /><br />Simonsen's weakest argument is #3. It doesn't matter that not everyone plays them competitively. Competitiveness is part of human psychology, and there will be enough to support a league if there were to be one.<br /><br />I don't think there ever be a wargaming league. There are a few things out there showing that some sort video gaming league may eventually evolve. However, the presence of wargames in the video game market is minuscule, and any league that does form will only include them by happenstance.<br /><br />Any league that wants media promotion will have to not only provide spectacle, as mentioned, but concentrate on games that are reasonably short. I don't think any video game league would pick up the Europa Universalis series, for example. Or how about Civilization IV?<br /><br />Of course, I can't help thinking of ESPN's coverage of the M:tG world tournament one year. The report I heard was that it was covered by people with no knowledge of, or interest for, the game. Gee, wonder why that crashed and burned. <br /><br />pward - 04 Jun 08 19:06 <br />Could you not see an organization similar to RPGA or the house run "ranking" system for various CCGs? While neither of these is really in the same league (pun intended) with baseball football etc., they are national or international organizations.<br /><br />Take Magic the Gathering for instance, if you play at one of their events, you are automatically setup with an ID number that you are expected to use next time you play an event. All of their sanctioned events require reporting to the organization of the results. (As I understand it from observing at the local game store on Magic nights.)<br /><br />The big question to me is why don't wargame producers choose to host similar ranking systems for their own products? <br /><br />Stalins Organ - 04 Jun 08 19:24 <br />And yet there are quite large single-game, or limited game organisations.<br /><br />There are FPS world championships and professional leagues for some games, there is an International Wargaming Federation which holds world championships for some figure game rules (Helsinki this year, Sydney last year....)<br /><br />Why should wargaming be considered any different to, say, "ball sports"? Is there a single ball sport governing body covering Rugby, Soccer, Gridiron, softball, lacross, squash, etc?<br /><br />Of course not - and there's not likely to be one either.<br /><br />Wargaming is the same - the games are superficially similar activities that are actually different in almost all important respects. <br /><br />There are "families" of games which might fall under a single roof, but otherwise there's no reason to assume that there will or should be a single overarching organisation ruling the roost. <br />M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-55910333027426110532016-05-04T18:03:11.590-06:002016-05-04T18:03:11.590-06:00gamesqud comments continued:
Michael Dorosh - 31 ...gamesqud comments continued:<br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 31 May 08 17:32 <br />I had meant to drop you a line as the resident chess guru to get your opinion, Scott - glad to see you're on the case!<br /><br />Cyber-athleticism. Well, Red Vs. Blue has already made HALO a spectator sport, of sorts. At the very least, it has opened the eyes of people towards FPS, in the same way that Robot Chicken has opened eyes up to action figure collecting. <br /><br />In other words, not very far, and without any hope of lending any more legitimacy to the activity!<br /><br />I agree with you that ASL will never be a game in which third parties (particularly uninitiated ones) can ooh and aah at the subtle nuances. Even baseball, a mainstream sport, is far more complex than the average person realizes. A right-handed batter coming up against a left-handed pitcher is a huge deal, but for the baseball fan who is not into statistics or following their favourite team, the drama is minimalized into nothing more than another at-bat.<br /><br />I would agree with you also that increased ability to provide an interesting graphical experience may have an impact on the ability to find audiences here, too. I think the tactical wargamer will still be left in the cold as far as public displays - being Napoleon will always trump being Roman Legionnaire XVII in the third row of the second cohort in the reserve phalanx as far as excitement and drama. We're seeing more interest in the tactical, though, such as in shows like Dogfights, using computer generated imagery that is getting more and more realistic. <br /><br />Scott Tortorice - 31 May 08 17:47 <br />All good points. The different elements that will prove necessary to make (war)gaming a spectator sport are all slowing falling into place - except for one. IMHO, the current crop of games are all to player-centric. It may be great fun to play WiC, or GTA, or CM, but there really isn't a lot there for an audience to interact with because the action is often too fast and furious (CM is the sole exception - perhaps WEGO is the solution?). Chess succeeded, even only briefly as a TV sport, because the audience could puzzle out the best move along with the GMs. Gaming needs to put forth a game that is both visually captivating to watch, as well as offering some sort of mental interaction on the part of the audience. Following some guy as he runs around an FPS environment capping opponents just doesn't do it. :-) <br /><br />Michael Dorosh - 31 May 08 19:25 <br />I think you're right in that what matters in the end is the spectacle. If you can't 'get' the drama of the right-handed hitter going against the left-handed pitcher, it doesn't matter, because you can still thrill to the sight of a home run or a stolen base winging a batter. How many people go to the Indy 500 just in hopes of seeing a car crash, and how many actually care about the revolutions per minute Danica's car is getting, or what temperature her tires are rated for, or how much torque the pit crew has on their wrenches?<br /><br />To follow your FPS example, there is spectacle there. A game of Combat Mission provides relatively little for a third party given how hard it is to remain in context in the repetitive 3D world with its simplistic graphics. Of course, Bobby Fischer wasn't a spectacle on TV, but I get the feeling that during the Cold War, the stakes were a bit higher as far as US-USSR matchups, so any endeavour in which the US could reasonably win was exciting given that the true athletes in the USSR were trained from birth as competitive machines and routinely cleaning the clocks of other countries in international athletics.<br /><br />Or so the story goes. <br />M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8587723021467018459.post-14798346150636499332016-05-04T18:02:20.852-06:002016-05-04T18:02:20.852-06:00This was originally posted at gamesquad.com. The c...This was originally posted at gamesquad.com. The comments read:<br /><br />Scott Tortorice - 31 May 08 17:24 <br />This is a great blog post! Coincidentally, I explored this same issue from the chess players perspective in my blog entry entitled Wargamers Could Learn A Lot from Chess Players. <br /><br />Let me take a crack at these points:<br /><br />#1: Complete agreement: While I never read Mr. Simonsen's article, I reached the same conclusion in my blog...and proposed a possible solution. <br /><br />#2: Disagreement with Simonsen: His point concerning the "Fischer Boom" is accurate. However, because the article was written in 1976, Mr. Simonsen could not have been aware of the subsequent "Kasparov Boom" whereby millions followed that GM's battles with Deep Blue and Anand over the internet (in fact, so many people logged onto the IBM website to follow the former, that it crashed!). Likewise, in the wake of the release of the critically-acclaimed chess movie Searching for Bobby Fischer, the United States Chess Federation membership swelled to "Fischer Boom" levels yet again. I think the main point here is that if you have a larger than life personality behind the activity, people will watch it as a spectator sport.<br /><br />I believe the same is true with wargaming. Someday (war)gaming will have a bona fide celebrity. Once you have that ingredient, all you need is a catalyst - i.e., a game that spans all demographics in popularity and/or is tied with some sort of great cultural or political movement (as Fischer and chess were tied into the Cold War). Furthermore, as (war)gaming becomes both "prettier" to behold and of greater depth and complexity (or realism, if you prefer), I think wargaming could easily become a spectator sport. Right now, when most people think of (war)games, they conjure up images of Pac Man or Grand Theft Auto. As I wrote in my last blog entry, too few people are aware of the more serious gaming fare out there (such as Total War).<br /><br />#3 Disagreement with Simonsen: Sure, some people just play for fun, but there will always be people more competitively minded. And, as soon as big money becomes involved, wargaming will develop a large competitive community and a wargamers league will become a reality (now, we can question if there ever will be money behind wargaming, but if there ever is, there will need to be a league of some sort to keep the competition fair.) <br /><br />As I see cyber-athleticism become a growing industry, my doubts begin to fade concerning (war)gaming becoming a competitive and lucrative sport. I think that there will probably be a very small chance that ASL or TACOPS will become a spectator sport, but future wargames that are more attractive and easier to grasp have a good chance of doing so. When I play World in Conflict, for example, I marvel at the beauty of that battlefield. If you could take such a game, make it more realistic, and place greater emphasis on thoughtful strategy and less on the click-fest aspects, you might have a winning formula (I think the first video game to make it as a television show will probably be designed from the ground up for that purpose).<br /><br />All I know is that as GenX and later, more gamer-heavy generations work their way into positions of authority in the entertainment industry, you can count on seeing gaming become a central component of American entertainment culture. It has already begun, in fact (please see some of those awful game-related movies). <br /><br />Finally, if you want to read a good sci-fi short story about "professional wargaming," check out William F. Wu's On the Shadow of a Phosphor Screen or Charles Sheffield's Fixed Price War. M.Doroshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09742262581616285671noreply@blogger.com